ua
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Post by ua on Jan 17, 2017 6:10:46 GMT -5
I guess I just don't see it that way. To me the trade off would be worth it. Since all of the so-called good players are already on peoples rosters that means the free-agent list is populated with pretty much nothing but purely speculative assets. Until a speculative asset pays off in a real world game, then every player on the list has more or less about the same amount of speculative upside. Reducing that number by a small handful of players is not going to be all that impactful. The most injured teams should be afforded an opportunity to take on more speculative risk if they want to. Maybe you are right and none of those moves will amount to a hill of beans but at least they have a chance to fight. I happen to think these players can make a difference… it seems every week there is a category in every match up where a point is decided by a single steel or a single three. Those points matter and they add up. I just don't think of it as another team using two injured spots and having players that I wish were available on the free-agent list. Good for them for figuring out how to swing that. As long as nothing they do is nothing I couldn't do if I were in the same situation then I don't see a problem with it.
I do appreciate the points and insights you make spurs, but I do think you weigh those concerns much more heavily than I do. If the trade off to give the most injured teams more flexibility in their rosters is to subtract the free-agent list by a handful of players that apparently nobody wanted all that badly in the first place, then I would take that every day.
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Reavers
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Things are looking Grim for you
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Post by Reavers on Jan 17, 2017 9:16:40 GMT -5
A smaller rotation because of injury doesn't mean that you can't win the % stats or the TO stat, if anything it probably helps those a little, and if it's not a top 100 type player then it probably won't hurt your counting stats much either unless its one of those elite role players that pluses up one of your counting stats big time. My team is a combo of young guys that are good but inconsistent, and young guys that aren't getting a lot of playing time and i've had guys with nagging injuries off and on all season so I've been bouncing down around 10-11 when I've got multiple guys hurt and around 6th place when they are healthy. Injuries dont mean that you can't compete unless you are sitting on a whole bunch of injury prone guys.
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ua
2x Champion (2014 & 2015 KL) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
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Post by ua on Jan 17, 2017 22:10:07 GMT -5
True but not every team is constructed the way yours is. And who is to say at some point in the future when your players are more experienced and consistent that you would find that extra spot more useful at that time? And yes, that free-agent you pick up may very well lose you both percentages and the turnover category, but I think that is a roll of the dice the manager would have to make for themselves… Like you said, they don't HAVE to pick anybody up. Not every injured player is a card-carrying superstar… sometimes the move is as simple as moving Rodney Hood to the injured list and picking up Joe No Habla Ingles or something. That's the kind of seemingly innocuous move that can make the difference between a win and a loss. It's not about what your team status is right now in the present, it's more about giving every franchise another tool in the toolbox to remain competitive and active for the next decade and beyond. Options give people hope, and hope keeps people playing.
I do appreciate you guys discussing it with me… Not like we have anything better to do now that were in the dog days.
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spurs champs
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Post by spurs champs on Jan 17, 2017 22:57:16 GMT -5
Not every team is constructed the way yours is either. While I realize the more IL places we have the fewer teams will be able to use them but if 2 is good why not 5 IL places. (yes I realize you would be ok with this). The more places you have the more that can come off the FA list (extra 70 off FA). You talk about teams should have the right to build the team the way they see fit. You have that right. You can drop the players and pick up others or you can float trades out there. I still see the Euro stash as a fairer way as anyone can use it.
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ua
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Post by ua on Jan 18, 2017 8:03:25 GMT -5
You make my point for me, just listen to yourself. You say every manager has the right to make their team up for themselves as it is, which I take it to mean that you are OK with extremely injured franchises dropping injured players in order to stay competitive in the present in exchange for a free agent which by your own words is not going to give them short term help to your level of satisfaction nor much of a stable future outlook either. Why should a manager have to make that choice? This is a FULL keeper league; The idea obviously to carry players into the distant future. Adding an extra injury spot is merely a tool to optimize team function league wide, don't preoccupy your mind fighting ghosts that never materialize in The real world. Our free-agent list is what it is and adding or subtracting four or five players from it isn't going to change that nor will it change the balance of power in the league, whatever that is.
And I know you think you were making a point by suggesting five il spots, but why not? Think your idea through to its logical end... it would not remove 70 players from the free-agent list, would it? Not unless you are envisioning a league with 80 simultaneous long-term injuries. It's not like you can stockpile players because you can't make a free-agent pick up if you have a non-injured player in your il. Managers would make observation and analysis and cuts like they normally would do. Some people would have several guys on the injured list and some won't have any at all, and after a few weeks that situation might be reversed. I'm not saying we should go to five IL but it would not have nearly the impact on the free-agent list or the league that you think it would. Right now we have one injury list spot for a roster of 17, it is simply not adequate enough for a roster this large in a Long rigorous NBA season where injuries can pile up very quickly and out of nowhere. Your European stash idea is a totally separate thing. And like I keep saying it has nothing to do with my team or your team or anybody else's. And I'm not bringing it up just because my team is really injured right now because I suggested two spots back when the leak was started, it's just that now that I've been really playing this particular league for a year and a half now I see ohhhh THAT is why I thought we needed more than one spot… running a 17 man roster with only one injury spot over the course of a six-month season is just not realistic and it gives lucky teams an unnecessary advantage over unlucky teams… the 3NC is about separating the best from the rest, not the lucky from the unlucky.
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spurs champs
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Post by spurs champs on Jan 18, 2017 21:20:56 GMT -5
You can make your own by more then adding players. You chose to have players this year that are injured. Have you tried sending out trades if you are so worried about having injured players? Of your three players one was injured last year and went into this year injured, a second one you traded a good young player who usually plaid over 65 games a year, the third you picked up this year. Now I am not saying that I would not want any of the players that are on your team. If I remember right at the beginning of the year you were trying to tank until you found out your team was doing good. I never said I can never find people on the FA list I said sometimes. You keep trying to make it sound like no one helpful can be found on the Fa list or someone that could be come good. You say it will not change the balance of power if that is the case then why are you so worried about it. I have a few people that I am uncertain of who to keep on my team so streaming. With another player you are able to hope on some of these players break out. As far as multiple IL I do realize most people would not fill it up. the point is it could. The Euro stash Idea does have an effect on my team and others teams. If we had it before this year Murry would be on it giving me an extra spot. No matter how many IR spots you have luck will come down to it. The more injured players you have the harder it will be to win.
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ua
2x Champion (2014 & 2015 KL) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
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Post by ua on Jan 20, 2017 4:38:00 GMT -5
So you would put Murray on your European stash so you could pick up another player from the free-agent list? Thereby doing exactly what you are complaining people would do if they had an extra injured spot. I never said I wanted injured players on my team. Who would want to go into a season with injured players? My players got injured when I was in a position to not really do anything about it. I'm not going to trade away players at a discount if I can avoid that, and there's no rule that says I have to trade. If the offers I get our trash then there is just not going to be a trade happening. Trading has nothing to do with this anyway. Trading is just a tool very much like the injury list. MY TEAM has nothing to do with this… Who cares if my team is injured? yOur team has nothing to do with this… Who cares if you have a European stash? I know you can't see this but all of your false equivalencies only serve to highlight the need. Giving managers more options for how to manipulate their own franchises is a GOOD thing. And I never said the players on the free-agent list wouldn't help anybody… You did. Or at least, you say there are good players on the free-agent list when it serves your argument and you say there aren't any good ones there when it serves your argument. By the way, I am very flattered that you so closely scrutinize my roster. Look, we have both been at this game for a long time. This season alone I am in a couple other very deep leagues with 2 IL and you know what? It works just fine. There have been times when both spots have been filled and times when both have been empty. Nobody is complaining about the free-agent list, nobody is complaining about the power in the league, The widespread hoarding of free agents isn't going on. It works. That's real world data which I take over your unproven conspiratorial theory any day.
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spurs champs
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Post by spurs champs on Jan 22, 2017 16:33:33 GMT -5
No it is not the same as a Euro stash would have to be decided at the beginning of the season and could not be changed us everyone could use and not keep a player that could be good but not playing on their bench just because they see the potential. I am not saying you wanted injured players I am just saying that you made choices that have led to you having them. There is no rule that says you have to trade them but with you complaining it is something you could do that would fix your problem. Your team has a lot to do with this. While you have said that you wanted this when the league started you have also on multiple accounts stated that your team being injured has reaffirmed this belief. I also dont believe you would be fighting so hard if your team was not injured. as far as false equivalencies there was one this week proven true. Reavers picked up vonleh because he put someone on IL. This is someone that I was going to pick up tomorrow but because he was able to move someone to IL he could do that and pick up someone speculative while not losing someone. I could not pick him up til Monday but think he would have made it through had it not been for the IL. As far as you being in a league with two IL. I have been in some with no IL and people complain about the FA list. Leagues are different and this league seems to work fine with just 1 IL.
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ua
2x Champion (2014 & 2015 KL) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
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Post by ua on Jan 23, 2017 6:24:52 GMT -5
Fair enough, spurs. Though I disagree with much of the points you made in that last message i'll go ahead and let you have the last word on the matter. It's always fun debating with you… You're as stubborn as I am.
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spurs champs
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Post by spurs champs on Jan 23, 2017 19:33:09 GMT -5
Yep I agree we are both stubborn but I like to debate most people.
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Post by Cousin Larry on Jan 24, 2017 13:53:19 GMT -5
UA and Spurs, you are both wrong.
Hah! I'll bet neither of you saw me getting the last word in this debate. Now neither of you will have the satisfaction of the last word and you can truly finish the conversation on even ground. You're welcome.
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ua
2x Champion (2014 & 2015 KL) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
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2014 3NC Dynasty Champion
Posts: 2,426
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Post by ua on Jan 24, 2017 15:48:49 GMT -5
Ahh... closure is so elusive. I don't care if you think I'm wrong, as long as you think spurs is wrong that's all that matters.
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Post by cam2win on Jan 25, 2017 9:55:05 GMT -5
Haven't been on the boards much lately but i'll give my quick 2 cents...
1 - I'm not expanding rosters, I've covered a few times why I think the active rosters are fine where they are 2 - I like the concept of a "stash" but really would rather not manage a roster spot outside of Yahoo. While it wouldn't be as big of an issue, most of us in this league where in keeper league with handling the IL outside of Yahoo caused issues 3 - I'm open to adding 1 IL spot potentially. Considering it doesn't add to the number of players we keep into next season and only helps a team in need that current season I think it's something i'd possibly entertain. On the flip side i'm on the side of having a deeper FA pool (even if that is just Joe Ingles).
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spurs champs
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Post by spurs champs on Jan 25, 2017 21:51:45 GMT -5
Cam-I do remember the problems that we had with the keeper league. My hope and this is a hope is that since the player is stashed and could not be added it would be easier to keep track of. The other thing is these players should not get a lot of playing time so they would only be wanted by a few teams probably. I am uncertain if you make certain players unable to be added or not. My big thing would be to keep it simple. If you are putting a player on it has to be done at the begging of the year. Player cannot be picked no matter how good he is playing. You could also not add another player on the list after a certain date. So examples of this would be Simmons was placed on at the beginning of the year. Even if he starts to play and scores 50pts 20 reb 8 3s 15 ast 10stl,20 blocks on 100% shooting and 0 TO he still could not be picked up. Another Example I put Murray on at the beginning of the year then latter I think Hermangomez is going to be good I could not pert Herm on the list and make murry A FA. One time year they can go on and one time a year they can come off (beginning and end). I think most teams would use this.
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spurs champs
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Post by spurs champs on Jan 25, 2017 22:21:57 GMT -5
UA and Spurs, you are both wrong. Hah! I'll bet neither of you saw me getting the last word in this debate. Now neither of you will have the satisfaction of the last word and you can truly finish the conversation on even ground. You're welcome. Good job that got me to laugh and when I stopped I read it again just so I could laugh some more.
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