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Post by cam2win on Dec 5, 2016 16:43:08 GMT -5
"Needless to say I am voting against this trade and urge everyone else to think this through"
It's that statement and only that statement that i had a problem with. I pointed you to the Trade Forum and never said anything about your opinions on the deal, by all means tell people you don't like it. That comment was trying to sway others your direction (which history tells me will lead to divide and arguing) and thus i spoke up against something i view as detrimental to the peace of this league.
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spurs champs
3x Champion (2014 SL, 2012 & 2013 KL) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Go Spurs
Posts: 2,637
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Post by spurs champs on Dec 5, 2016 20:34:06 GMT -5
I think we need to get Clutch in the keeper league. I would have someone else to help me veto trades their. If he thinks this is bad he should see some of those.
That being said I do understand Cams point about keeping it in the trade thread but I can see clutch also. Now that he knows I think he will keep it in the trade thread.
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ua
2x Champion (2014 & 2015 KL) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Manager
2014 3NC Dynasty Champion
Posts: 2,426
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Post by ua on Dec 6, 2016 10:12:34 GMT -5
Yay I finally won a match up. 66% free-throw shooting is hopefully a nightmare I never have to live through again.
I'm kind of surprised there's been so much activity in the couple days since I've been away. Just to throw in my two cents… I am OK with what Mr. clutch is said in his post. I felt it was appropriately thoughtful and critical without being personal. I think the length of the trade reject time is a fair point. In the future I would suggest perhaps a three day trade reject time is better since we use a "announced and discuss" thread Systems that always takes a few days to work out comfortably, as opposed to just being able to click on a veto button real quick. Three days may seem long but it's actually not in the scope of an entire season.
I understand where cam is coming from, and though I don't think potentially deleting posts would be the right way to go, I do think his heart and mind are in the right place to protect the league, and in this leagues short lifetime I think he is doing a great job. I get both cams sensitivity to the issue and Mr. clutches not understanding his sensitivity to the issue just because he is new to the league. I have not known clutch as long as cam, but you both seem to be smart and fair minded individuals in the league is better for having you both in it.
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Post by Cousin Larry on Dec 6, 2016 10:50:54 GMT -5
You are a good guy, UA. We are lucky to have you in the league.
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Reavers
1x Champion (2013 SL)
Things are looking Grim for you
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Post by Reavers on Dec 6, 2016 11:19:27 GMT -5
Clutch, I would agree that cam trying to censor your comments is a little overboard and tried to bring it up with him in a friendly way. I would also agree that perhaps cam is being a bit oversensitive on this trade because he is involved and because larry was involved in the trade in the keeper league where people's feelings were hurt (which was actually a culmination of a lot of trades that people were upset about and kind of unloaded on the one trade). BUT I don't think that cam is trying to cheat the league here or that he or larry are the type of guys that would throw off the competitive balance of the league just to set one of them up to win for the next few years. Larry is going the route of the Sixers and intentionally tanking in the hopes he may land the next superstar, probably jumpstarted by the injury to Middleton, Noel, MCW, Jokic, and delayed start by Jrue. The Sixers of course hurt the feelings and the pocketbooks of the entire league to the point where Hinkie was fired over it. Cam has done a very nice job of picking up players at a discount this offseason, Melo, Porter, and now Ibaka and Jrue, to the point where now he has one of the most deep and competitive teams in the league. Not all that similar but the Warriors hurt everyones feelings in the league and signed Durant. Now do we let trades that look lopsided at first like the Pau Gasol for Marc Gasol trade did go thru or we block CP3 to the Lakers?
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Post by Cousin Larry on Dec 6, 2016 11:48:07 GMT -5
Thanks, Reavers. I should also point out to non-keeper managers that I successfully fixed my keeper league team by tanking for one year. The previous manager had abandoned the team, and it had a nice piece or two, but it was in rough shape. I admitted defeat, took a real beating for one season, and have made the playoffs every year since. I'm not a championship-caliber team and have yet to finish in the top 3, so I don't want to overstate my credentials, but I have shown the ability to do this the right way. I hate losing, but sometimes losing big in the short term is the best way to build a winner in the long term.
Now I'm not trying to justify this trade, y'all can view it how you want. I'm just trying to explain my overarching strategy. Plus I'm going to give another subtle reminder that Tyreke Evans will be on the block once he rounds back into his usual 15/5/5 kind of game.
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Post by cam2win on Dec 6, 2016 12:02:49 GMT -5
UA and Wolves - thank you both for sharing your thoughts and insight regarding the trade and events on the board regarding the trade. I take everyone's comments and opinions seriously and use them to help improve how the league is managed. I would agree i could have been less stern in my stance, however i wanted to be clear on the issues i want to avoid in this league. It's unfortunate that the member i reacted to doesn't have the Keeper League background many of us do. I mentioned that league issue, but could have elaborated more looking back. I take my role as commish very seriously, and just know my personal team agenda are and will always be a distant second to the league agenda. I care way more about the league than any one trade, and it's not even close
UA - You bring up a worthy discussion point that probably deserves it's own thread. I'm certainly open to extending the voting period in Yahoo. I think 3 days is to long personally, but a compromise of 2 days seems more than valid. Would like to see majority opinion though.
Wolves - Great comparison on the positions Larry and i have taken and how they compare to teams like the Sixers and Warriors. If anything this trade emphasized a clear direction and plan for both of our teams (if it wasn't clear already). As someone who continues to lack enough top talent and refuses to rebuild in keeper league, i know being in the middle is the worst spot you can be in. It's important to self evaluate and commit one way or the other.
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Post by Cousin Larry on Dec 6, 2016 17:47:36 GMT -5
Larry why do you have to trade only to 1 guy in this league that is on the brink of already having a solid chance of winning the league to make him even stronger? If you made it public that you were in the midst of trading away your players to the league, I am sure you would have gotten a ton of better trade proposals that would have helped you more than 2 unproven sketchy talented guys with a chance of being good and would have made it fair to the rest of the league in the process. I did make you an offer right before the season began - you politely rejected it and explained that Randle and Barton were your building blocks for the future (did you also have Stanley Johnson back in the day-he might have been in there, too). I didn't want to be the guy that keeps sending the same deal repeatedly, which I know can be annoying, but maybe in this case it would have had different results. If so, I made a mistake.
I've liked dealing with you and wasn't avoiding you this time. You have a talented roster, but most of the pieces you could have traded me will be on the decline before my young guys hit their peak. Adding 28- and 29-year-olds right now would lead to me being just bad enough to miss the playoffs and just good enough to never get a high draft pick. So I have a strong preference for adding young guys with upside - I have to gamble on the unproven sort because young studs like KAT and Porzingis aren't touchable in a dynasty format.
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Post by cam2win on Dec 7, 2016 12:03:28 GMT -5
Paul, many people have chimed in and explained how these types of deals happen in keeper/dynasty formats...just like real life. I think it was Wolves that gave great examples of real life teams that trade players for youth. Look at what Danny Ainge and the Celtics did recently, look at what the Minnesota did trading KLove, look at what the Nuggets did trading Melo. These happen all the time. Heck, your favorite team acquired Kobe Bryant doing that exact type of deal. Nobody knew Kobe would become a top 10 player of all time. Not to mention Larry explained his reasoning and how he's had success in this type of format rebuilding. I've seen it happen many times over the years and reality is we won't know if this is a good trade for either of us for years to come.
Addressing your opinion he is handing me a title, i'd say i'm less of a "now" team than you actually. If you look at the average age of our rosters, your team is over 28 years of age. You have 5 guys under 27 and 1 player under 25 years old on your roster (to Larry's point you didn't have the youth he was looking for). My average age, even after this deal, is 25 (so I'm 3 years younger). I have 12 players under 27 and 8 under 25. Sure this deal helps me alot this year and moves me closer to the top right now. But it's my youth that has gotten me where i am at and it's my youth that allowed me to have trade chips (just like real life NBA) to make a deal like this even.
As for the personal business you are putting on here. It's a fantasy basketball forum. I've reached out to you, if you'd like to chat more I'd gladly do that...but ask we keep this forum to basketball discussions for the sake of all members of the league.
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ua
2x Champion (2014 & 2015 KL) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Manager
2014 3NC Dynasty Champion
Posts: 2,426
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Post by ua on Dec 14, 2016 16:25:59 GMT -5
Wow . I guess I should've known. Family… I totally understand.
Far be it from me to throw gas at a healthy fire, I can tell you one thing for sure, Mr. clutch… if you're looking for tough competition then this is definitely the place. I very deeply enjoy getting a win off of every single guy in here which is something I really can't say about almost any other league. Too many battles to count, and I've been ripped off and trades more often then I want to remember. My own fault of course, nothing teaches a manager discipline quite like having to eat a stupid mistake. Badways is rightways now so best go homeways to grab a bit of spatchka. Right right.
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