leaguegod
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Post by leaguegod on Oct 21, 2014 0:06:39 GMT -5
Yeah I'm high on Portland too
Mathews and Lopez so exactly what is needed to, their depth has been an issue but looks a bit better this year
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Post by munchymart on Oct 21, 2014 1:18:43 GMT -5
In what aspect of the game is Aldridge better than Love, Griffin, Davis and Horford?
I love Aldridge too, and I enjoyed the heck out of the Blazers last year. But objectively, they're perilously thin and any regression from last year will drop them down to a bottom 4 seed (which is where I think they'll end up).
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Post by munchymart on Oct 21, 2014 1:21:31 GMT -5
And by bottom 4 I mean bottom 4 playoff seed as in between 5-8
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 1:51:03 GMT -5
Love - incredibly overrated, terrible defender, never made the playoffs, not a winner
Griffin - has had Chris Paul carrying his arse for a few years now. Once again, like Love, below average defender, glorified dunker. The new Shawn Kemp
Horford - Meh, good player, but has never looked close to putting up 23/11
Davis, fair call, can go either way, in a few years, maybe even after this year he'll end up the best big in the nba
However Love/Griffin are incredibly overrated players. Love is nothing more than a chucker who is a great rebounder, but has no D. Griffin's jump shooting ability is meh, explosive athletic big that is fun to watch, but like Love, his D leaves a lot to be desired. Good passer though
Aldridge is an excellent faceup PF that can rebound, is a good help defender and an overall above average defensive player. He's never going to be an elite defender, however he's more of a complete player than Love/Griffin (who are very one dimensional)
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magohaydz
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Post by magohaydz on Oct 21, 2014 2:28:28 GMT -5
Griffin - has had Chris Paul carrying his arse for a few years now. Once again, like Love, below average defender, glorified dunker. The new Shawn Kemp I have a small gripe with this one... Kemp could actually defend.
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ua
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Post by ua on Oct 21, 2014 2:38:48 GMT -5
That's weird, I agree with much of what rooster said. Taking fantasy consideration completely out and speaking strictly basketball I think the description of Aldrich as being the most "complete" is correct. If it wasn't for Anthony Davis is incredibly fast rise I would consider Aldrich the best power forward. As a defender yes he is acceptably above average but not great. His offense is what's so impressive about him, he really impresses me with the number of areas of the floor he can score from. Supposedly he's planning on shooting a lot more threes this season than ever before.
In defense of Shawn Kemp, there were a couple years and there where he had everything figured out and he was completely unguardable. He was scoring at will from almost anywhere inside 20 feet. Blake Griffin is getting a little better each year I think. I think Chris Paul is the one whose career has gone beyond its peak and is only downhill or plateau from here. In the playoffs he keeps getting outplayed and taken out by other Western Conference point guards Who consider themselves better than he is. And I hate the cliff paul Insurance commercials.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 3:30:56 GMT -5
Maggot, dude, you know me, Kemp > Griffin
And don't get me wrong guys, I'm not as big of a Griffin hater as I am a Love hater. Griffin actually took the Clips to the playoffs one year without cp3 (if memory serves me correct)
Love on the other hand is just not as good as many proclaim. Great rebounder, chucks too many 3's and his defensive game is putrid.
I'm the biggest dirk homer around and whilst he's had limitations defensively in his career, the dude was/is clutch as fuck, he reinvented the PF position, and could lead his team. Love is a chucker, and goes missing in big games. I'd take half a dozen PF's in the league and even Dirk himself at 36 over Love any day.
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Post by munchymart on Oct 21, 2014 3:32:25 GMT -5
Love - incredibly overrated, terrible defender, never made the playoffs, not a winner Griffin - has had Chris Paul carrying his arse for a few years now. Once again, like Love, below average defender, glorified dunker. The new Shawn Kemp Horford - Meh, good player, but has never looked close to putting up 23/11 Davis, fair call, can go either way, in a few years, maybe even after this year he'll end up the best big in the nba However Love/Griffin are incredibly overrated players. Love is nothing more than a chucker who is a great rebounder, but has no D. Griffin's jump shooting ability is meh, explosive athletic big that is fun to watch, but like Love, his D leaves a lot to be desired. Good passer though Aldridge is an excellent faceup PF that can rebound, is a good help defender and an overall above average defensive player. He's never going to be an elite defender, however he's more of a complete player than Love/Griffin (who are very one dimensional) Love: sure bad defender, but a much much superior offensive player (the best offensive player on this list in fact). As for "not a winner" that's such bullshit - look at the teams he's had around him, and then look at the other 8 playoff teams. Even Lebron or KD probably couldn't have taken Corey Brewer, Rubio and co to the playoffs in the Western Conference. Griffin: um have you actually watched a Clippers game last year or just highlights? He's an incredibly skilled post up player and the best passer out of all of these guys. As for "carried by Chris Paul", he averaged 28-8-4.5 on 55% shooting in January when Chris Paul was injured last year lol. Horford: best defensive player on this list, better passer and a better rebounder than Aldridge throughout his career. If you got Horford to attempt the same number of shots a game then I'm fairly confident he'll get 23 a night. Aldridge averaged 23 on 20 shots a game, Horford gets 18 on 14 shots a game. You wanna talk about a chucker? Aldridge attempted the most shots out of anyone here at over 20 a game, and hit the lowest percentage of all of these guys. And as for being a 'complete' player, Griffin is a better passer and more efficient scorer than Aldridge, Love can score from inside/outside and is a better passer and rebounder than Aldridge, and Horford is a little bit better at pretty much everything except he doesn't attempt as many shots. Aldridge's defense is passable, but at the same time his team ranked lowest in defensive efficiency than Minnesota (who don't have a rim protector even on the level of Lopez), the Clippers (who admittedly have DeAndre Jordan which helps) and Atlanta. Love's individual defense is troublesome because he can't protect the rim, but rebounding is still a pretty important part of a defensive possession and Love is the best rebounder in the league. Blake doesn't pile up blocks or steals, but he's a passable team defender (pretty much on par with Aldridge). And again, I love watching Aldridge play and it's not at all a diss to say he's a top 5 PF in the game.
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Post by munchymart on Oct 21, 2014 3:35:47 GMT -5
Maggot, dude, you know me, Kemp > Griffin And don't get me wrong guys, I'm not as big of a Griffin hater as I am a Love hater. Griffin actually took the Clips to the playoffs one year without cp3 (if memory serves me correct) Love on the other hand is just not as good as many proclaim. Great rebounder, chucks too many 3's and his defensive game is putrid. I'm the biggest dirk homer around and whilst he's had limitations defensively in his career, the dude was/is clutch as fuck, he reinvented the PF position, and could lead his team. Love is a chucker, and goes missing in big games. I'd take half a dozen PF's in the league and even Dirk himself at 36 over Love any day. What do you mean by "too many" 3's? He hits a pretty bloody good percentage of them, and seeing as 3's are worth more than 2's, I'd say keep on shooting em. Love also averaged fewer shots a game and had a lower usage rate than Aldridge so not sure how he's more of a chucker. In fact given his awful supporting cast maybe he needed to chuck a bit more! And what big games did Love go missing in? He's never played in the playoffs
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2014 4:10:11 GMT -5
In what way is Love superior offensively? The fact he chucks up 3's and spends majority of a game camping out on the 3 point line? And what's been wrong with the wolves? They've had some very nice pieces around them, more than enough to make the playoffs at least once or twice in The Love era. Rubio, Martin, Pekovic, those 3 players are all solid talent capable of supporting a so called "superstar" get to the playoffs. Look at the suns of last season, they almost did it without 1 legitimate star. FACT is, Love has been in this league long enough and had yet to even taste a playoff minute.
Griffin, yep sure, good low post player, crappy defender, and struggles with the simple 15-20 foot jumper. You actually sound very much like PP with the whole "have you even watched a game" argument. It must be a kiwi thing. Maybe even a realGM thing. Next you'll be telling me that Blake is a "legit" hall of famer. And when stating the CP3 reference, it's the truth. That is the only reason the Clips have been a top 4 seed over the years, not because of Griffin.
Horford? Seriously? Come on man, really? Tell me ONE, just ONE season where Horford has averaged 23/11. In truth though, I like Al, he's better than both Love and Griffin IMO
As for Love camping on the 3P line. You're a mavs fan, you'd see it (well I'm hoping right now) that once Dirk started to take his arse off the 3P line, and start hitting mid rangers, his game opened up a lot more. Problem with Love is that he has no real strong faceup game, he's a pure catch and shoot PF. He's got no real good low post moves, all he does mostly is camp on the perimeter. Love is one dimensional, and his defense is absolutely atrocious.
Love is also a career 36% 3 point shooter. That at best is average to say the least.
Aldridge is a better faceup PF. A better mid range shooter. Better defender, and overall better player. The only thing I'd give Griffin, Love and Horford props over LA is passing ability. Otherwise? IMO, LA is the more complete player.
PS: every single big game I've seen Love in (against quality opposition, he's majority of the time gone missing. He hadn't got the killer instinct.
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Post by munchymart on Oct 21, 2014 4:52:25 GMT -5
"Chucking up 3's" and camping out on the 3 point line DOES make him a better offensive player - at least, his ability to do so is immensely valuable. Aldridge isn't even that elite a midrange shooter - he shot 42% from there which is right around league average (although that's over the league average overall, so among bigs he will be above average, but it's not elite compared to guys like Bosh, Dirk or Ibaka - horford shot 48% from midrange last year btw). If Aldridge the "elite" midrange shooter shoots 10 times from midrange and makes 42%, that's 8.4 points a game. If Kevin Love as an "average" 3 point shooter shoots 10 3's at 36%, that's 10.8 points a game. An average 3 point shooter is a better offensive player than an average or even above average mid range shooter, because it's simple maths. So really, I couldn't care less that Aldridge is a marginally better midrange player because that's just not as valuable as a good 3 point shooter. You've got to give me something closer to 50% from midrange (like Dirk, Bosh or Ibaka) to make that shot worth it. Last year was indeed the most talent he's had, and the fact that he didn't make it is disappointing. And yeah, he wasn't great in crunchtime last year. But prior to that in 2011 the top 5 minutes leaders were Beasley, Ridnour, Wes Johnson, and Darko. In 2012 it was Ridnour, Wes, Derrick Williams and a rookie Rubio. In 2013 he only played 18 games. As for the "watch the game" thing, heh maybe it is a NZ thing ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) but I'm just tired of the "all he does is dunk and catch lobs" narrative when over the last two year's Griffin has diversified his game hugely and he's more than capable of doing damage a variety of ways. Again, look at the numbers when Paul was out last year: 28-8-4, and oh by the way the Clippers went 12-6 in those games, a 54 win pace. And the "all he does is camp out on the 3 point line" narrative for Love is also false, he's got a perfectly serviceable post-up game which he utilises : www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4lEqq7CtKc In fact, Aldridge averages MORE "catch and shoot" field goal attempts per game than Love - Aldridge had the 4th highest number of catch and shoot attempts per game in the league according to NBA.com: stats.nba.com/playerTrackingCatchShoot.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=25&sortField=PTS&sortOrder=DES It's just Aldridge's catch and shoot's come from the mid range in pick and pops and Love's comes behind the arc And killer instinct? Love put up a 27-15 against Houston, 42-16 against Indy, 42-14 against San Antonio, 45-19 against the Clippers, 28-16 against Memphis, and I could go on. Was he perfect in crunchtime last year? Nah, I agree he was pretty uneven. But he's definitely had games where he's risen up to the level of competition and tried to carry his team. And don't try and attribute straw man arguments on me! Of course I'm not saying Griffin (or any of these guys - yet) is a HOFer. Horford, like I said - he averages fewer shots a game than Aldridge. That's a stone cold fact. If he could shoot 6 more times a game like Aldridge does, then even if his shooting % plummets down from his current 54-56% to Aldridge's 45%, then sure he'll probably put up around 23. He does more damage with fewer shots which is valuable, and his defense is the best out of all these guys.
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leaguegod
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Post by leaguegod on Oct 21, 2014 5:05:03 GMT -5
i feel like we're splitting hairs
i can see the argument from both munchy and roost, i'd personally go
davis griffin aldridge horford love
but there isn't a huge gap between them
i think love could very well put himself up a few spots this season tho, his usage coming down will be a good thing and i'm interested to see whether his defense goes from awful to about average. having less offensive work load, playing for a contender, i could see him defending a bit better this year
i'm pretty high on blake, he keeps improving, i think he is more important then CP3 for the clips at this stage
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Post by munchymart on Oct 21, 2014 5:08:38 GMT -5
Yeah lol like I said, I think Aldridge is awesome. In fact he's probably my favourite to watch out of those guys after Horford (but I think watchability is a separate issue from how good they are), and you could rank those 5 in just about any order at different parts of the season depending on who's hot at the time. It just sticks in my craw a little bit when what I believe is unfair criticism is placed on guys I like, that's all
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Reavers
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Things are looking Grim for you
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Post by Reavers on Oct 21, 2014 6:11:18 GMT -5
Munchy the Bucks aren't making the playoffs. They've all but come out and said that they are tanking for one more year. Of course the league has gone too far with the new lottery rules so more teams like the Cavs will be winning the lotto but anyways. The Bucks are going to play the young guys and let the wins fall where they may. The only reason that they have won in the preseason is that we still have veteran players and young stars on the floor in the 4th quarter while most teams are playing their D leaguers.
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Reavers
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Post by Reavers on Oct 21, 2014 6:25:21 GMT -5
While Love may not be an all world player he might be the most intriguing stretch big that I've ever seen. While Dirk is easily a MUCH better basketball player, Love's favorite top left side of the arc 3 pointer is going to pull opposing bigs out of the paint especially because Pek isn't in there. The Cavs are going to force teams to play small and the only team right now that has a prayer of defending them is Chicago. Once Love's man is out of the pain it's open season for Kyrie and Waiters on the hoop. If teams pack the paint the Cavs have enough outside shooting to make them pay and put them down 10-15pts in minutes. The Cavs offense has the potential to be the best ever this year. They will have their off nights when the 3 isn't falling but I think LeBron will be fast asleep on the bench most nights in the 4th quarter.
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